The Wandering Pen

Etched in Granite Series: How an author gave a voice. a presence & a history to those buried in a pauper's cemetery

Mj Pettengill is an author and social historian with a focus on cultural narrative and traditions, historical and intergenerational trauma integration, ancestral healing, and social welfare development. She has a background in Civil War Musicology and trumpet performance. Before transitioning to the world of writing, she performed as a soloist with various musical organizations and featured in numerous Living Histories, Reenactments, and Historical Events throughout the Northeast.Aligned with her passion for nature and the ancient healing customs of her ancestors, MJ practices the art of gathering and preparing wild food and plant medicine. She creates in her woodland studio on a farm nestled deep in the wilds of New Hampshire.Mj completed undergraduate studies in social history, theology, music, and psychology. She has an MFA in creative writing. 
Website: https://www.mjpettengill.com/
 
     
   
 
   
 
Disclaimer: The views expressed by guests are their own and do not reflect the views of the host or The Wandering Pen unless explicitly stated during the interview.
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Billiards for Benefits where every game is a gift

If you liked the movies Cool Hand Luke or The Color of Money, you would enjoy participating in Billiards for Benefits. Listen to the podcast and learn that it’s not just about playing pool . . .
This podcast took place on Sunday, January 26, 2025.   My guest is Tracee Clepper.
Tracee and co-founder Lisa Kochenauer started Billiards for Benefits in 2001 to raise funds and awareness for local charities in Central Pennsylvania. Some charities they helped are Juvenile Diabetes, Hospice of Central PA, Nicholas Ryan Over Foundation, and Leukemia & Lymphoma Society.
Since 2001, they’ve raised approximately $100,000.
Website - Billiards for Benefits Facebook - Billiards for Benefits - Playing Pool to Make a Difference
      
      
       
 

Farming in Cumberland County Yesterday and Today

On July 11, 2023, Christine Musser interviewed Ivo Otto III. Mr. Otto is an attorney with Martson Law in Carlisle, PA. His family held the record in Pennsylvania for the best milk production. The Otto family farm is located in South Middleton Township, Cumberland County. Parts of the farm have been sold off for industrial and residential development. 
 
Disclaimer: The views expressed by guests are their own and do not reflect the views of the host or The Wandering Pen unless explicitly stated during the interview.
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A Day in the Life of a Commercial Fisherman

Martavis Washington grew up helping his dad bring in blue crabs from the Chesapeake Bay. In Episode 3, Martavis shares how the role of the commercial fisherman spanned three generations of the Washington family from Grasonville, Maryland. 
There is something special about the craft of a Chesapeake Bay Waterman (the local term for commercial fisherman). It takes years of experience just to learn to tie the trotline, which Martavais will explain. 
I knew nothing coming into the interview, but by the end of the podcast, I had respect for the hard work and long days the watermen had. Their job is similar to that of a farmer. 
The life of a commercial fisherman in the Chesapeake Bay is a dying art. Someday, the stories will remain. 
Disclaimer: The views expressed by guests are their own and do not reflect the views of the host or The Wandering Pen unless explicitly stated during the interview.
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The Importance of Cumberland County, PA to the Chesapeake Bay with Emily Thorpe

Welcome to the Wandering Pen monthly Podcast where you will find interviews on a variety of topics - from travel, wildlife conservation, the environment, writing & publishing, fine arts, and history just to name a few. I am Christine Musser, your host.
Welcome to -
Episode 2 - The Environment and the Chesapeake Bay.
HOST: Today’s podcast occurred on July 3, 2019.  I had the opportunity to interview Emily Thorpe from the Chesapeake Bay Foundation’s Pennsylvania office.  Emily is the Pennsylvania Student Leadership Coordinator and Supervisor of the Student Action and restoration program at the Foundation.
Let’s start with why Cumberland County is important to the Chesapeake Bay. I guess is that it has to do with the Conodoguinet and the Yellow Breeches Creeks?
 
EMILY: The Cumberland Valley is primarily drained by the Conodoguinet Creek and the Yellow Breeches Creek, those are both tributaries of the Susquehanna. The Susquehanna puts up to 50 percent of all of the freshwater draining into the Chesapeake Bay each day. And it’s the largest single tributary to the Chesapeake Bay, so, um, all of our tributaries to the Susquehanna are important, but our two here in Cumberland County are especially important. The Yellow Breeches is known for being a world-class trout stream. A lot of people frequently are fishing on the breeches. Then the Conodoguinet is also a recreational hub for kayakers and canoeists, um, and it does have some impairments, ah, mostly sediment, um, and nutrients, high nutrient levels. Some of that is due to agricultural lands, but it’s also due to development along the shores.
Photos of the Yellow Breeches & Conodoguinet Creeks and the Susquehanna River
HOST: Ok. Now when you said about the sediment -  can you just talk a little bit about the drainage from those?
EMILY: Sure. So, whenever it rains water hits the land and if we had an intact forest ecosystem those trees the leaves and branches and all of that would capture a lot of that water before it would ever reach the ground and then once it was to hit in the forest it would generally be absorbed by the trees and the other plants growing there. Because we’ve altered the land use in our area we maybe don’t have those natural filters to absorb as much as the water when we do have rain events, so, what happens is the rain hits the ground, and it carries with it nutrients coming from say your lawn fertilizer, or, um, manure, or even fumes from car exhaust it carries those nutrients and sediment, being soil, into our waterways and that can cause issues for the animals as well as the plants that live in our waterways.
HOST: What is – how are the waterways in the Cumberland Valley/Cumberland County area, um, compare to, um, other creeks throughout Pennsylvania? Can you, is that an easy question to answer or?
EMILY: It’s not really an easy question to answer (chuckles) –
HOST: I didn’t think it would be but . . .
EMILY: Some parts of our streams may be higher quality, and then as you move down the stream, you may see land-use changes tend to have of an effect. So, the confluence of the Conodoguinet and the Susquehanna River was actually designated as impaired even for recreation, um, just a few years ago, um, and I don’t know if that still stands, but that’s something, ah, that DEP - Department of Environmental Protection – they’re responsible for assessing our waterways and determining what impairment status they have – so, they can be impaired for aquatic life, they can be impaired for drinking water, and then they can be impaired for recreation. So, DEP list, ah, list those impairments and they actually divide it up into different sections of the waterway, so, it can be challenging, um, to determine what the overall stream health is for any given waterway that’s something I would want to defer to the staff scientist on.
HOST: Ok. Let’s go ahead and get with, since you work directly with students and the education, just what exactly is that you do with students to help them, I guess to educate them, what ages do you work with, can you just give us some detail of that, please?
EMILY: Sure, so, um, the Chesapeake Bay Foundation actually operates over fifteen environmental education programs throughout the watershed – Maryland, Pennsylvania, and Virginia is where all of our programs are. Here in Pennsylvania, we have three education programs. One is our Susquehanna Watershed Environmental Program. It’s a canoe based program that gets students out, usually on their local waterways, um, canoeing and learning about their watershed, looking at the water chemistry and the macroinvertebrates or the aquatic insects that are living in the stream, ah - and then the other program that we have is the Student Action and Restoration Program, and it’s actually new this year. The canoe program has been around for twenty-nine years, but this program is brand new, and we’re working with land conservancies and other non-governmental organizations as well as governmental organizations like DCNR [Department of Conservation and Natural Resources] and state parks to provide environmental education programming at their sites, so, we’re actually bringing our educators to field sites that are managed by partners, and we’re working with students to learn a little bit about land use and how that affects water quality and then we’re actually charging them to taking action; we’re teaching them how they can take action either in their school or their home community to restore some of our waterways; so we give them the skills and training that they need to be able to plant trees or to remove invasive species or plant conservation landscaping such as native plants. So, they are some examples of the types of action projects we are doing on the Student Action and Restoration Program. All of our programs are open to grades 6 through 12, and so, we’re primarily working with middle and high school students.
The third that we have in Pennsylvania is a little bit different – it’s called our Student Leadership Program. That’s the program that I’m primarily responsible for, and so, I’m working with high school students out of schools; our other two programs, um, work directly with school groups, you could think of it kind of like a field trip or a field, we say field experience. Our Student Leadership Program is working with students outside of the school settings, so these are students that have decided that they want to take their interest in environmental issues here in Pennsylvania to the next level.
You might be familiar with that program thanks to its work designating the eastern Hellbender as the Pennsylvania State Amphibian that was a project that came directly out of our Student Leadership Program and was led by our high school student leaders, um, but these students are also taking action in their own communities in many other ways. They’re actually leading and hosting plantings for other students and community member; they’re restoring rain gardens; they’re leading environmental awareness days at their own middle and high schools, so, they’re really deciding what it is they want to do, what kind of contribution they want to make. Our program provides them with the support and resources and training to be able to make that happen. Then, so, that program runs throughout the entire school year, but we’re getting ready to kind of kick off our new year with our student leadership summer courses which are five-day intensive program. We’re traveling, overnight, visiting the most beautiful places that our watershed has to offer to get inspired and to meet with partners to learn about how we can help to support their efforts as well.
HOST: I know that when I talked to you earlier, you were planning on actually and preparing to go away – to head out on Monday [July 8], I believe –
EMILY: On Sunday, yep –
HOST: And where exactly are you going?
EMILY: Yeah, so this course is traveling primarily throughout the Pennsylvania Wilds Region. So, we’re introducing students, I say, to all the amazing natural resources that our state has to offer. It’s like the grand tour of Pennsylvania. So, I wish we could hit everything, but, um, we will be canoeing on the West Branch of the Susquehanna; We’ll be learning about Hellbenders with a professor from Lycoming College; up at Sinnemahoning State Park we will be working with Trout Unlimited to assess a small stream in the PA Wilds Region for aquatic life; we’ll be learning to fly fish, a quaint official Pennsylvania hobby, we’ll be visiting the Elk County Region, hopefully, see some Elk and go to the visitors center – there we’ll learn about that restoration and conservation success story; then we will end our week at Penn State Arboretum and then Alan Seeger Natural State Forest where there stands an old-growth Hemlocks.
So, it’s kind of a whirlwind six days, um, but students usually leave feeling really inspired, really motivated to take action, and really appreciative of the beauty of their home state and all that it has to offer.
HOST: Ok, for any, um, parent of students who have interest in, you know, the environment and the Chesapeake Bay and the waterways here in Pennsylvania, how do they get involved in this? Can you just give a little bit of detail as to, you know, if a student would want to take on of these trips or adventures?
EMILY: Sure, so, if there are any teachers or school groups that are interested in our field program, I would say that you could visit our website, which is cbf.org/apply, and that’s where you can find all the information about our field education programs. For students that are interested in Student Leadership, you can find on our website cbf.org/studentleadership information about our programs as well as ways to connect with us, and one of those ways would be to email slcoordinator@cbf.org. That’s one way to get connected with us there or on the website. The applications for our summer programs it’s actually fairly competitive process, and they go live as early as March. So, we’ve had students that have applied in March and are ready to go for their programs coming up next week and again at the end of July and again in mid-August.  So, we have three courses this year for students. I say courses because they really are intensive and we’re providing students with skills and training and coaching to develop their own action plans, and our expectation is that they do everything that they can to implement them throughout the school year so, we’re going above and beyond this five-day experience. All the information about our program is on the website. What we do, if say a student is interested in getting involved now and they’ve missed the deadline for summer courses that’s fine it’s a year-long program, so we do host Student Leadership Council meetings once a month in Harrisburg, but it’s also available remotely for students that live outside the area.  We also offer Student Leadership Confluences both in the Fall and in the Spring, and those are three-day skill and professional development experiences for students.
HOST: Does any this help them when they apply for college or does it help them to get into a particular school, they would like to major in with the environment does this help in any way?
EMILY: Yeah, absolutely. We offer all of our student leaders college recommendations if they would like them or if they would need them. We have also written job recommendations for some of our students. We have student leaders at Penn State University studying natural resources; we have a student leader getting ready to head to Mansfield University for Geoscience; Salisbury University in Maryland for Environmental Science or Environmental Studies. So, yeah, many of our students are pursuing those college degrees and eventually those career paths even, but not all of them. Some students decide to go to school for something completely different, but they’re totally aware now they’re more environmentally literate citizen of the watershed and that they can make informed decisions, but yes, I would say our program absolutely helps students with applying to college,  with getting into university and we do maintain connections with some universities. I mentioned that we are working with a professor from Lycoming, so we do try to facilitate those kinds of introductions through our program as well.
HOST: I think that is all the questions I have right now. Is there anything that I didn’t ask that you would like to include?
EMILY: Education is just one portion of our work at the Bay Foundation. I would also give a shout out to our environmental protection and restoration team. They are doing a ton of work, especially in supporting our new Keystone 10 million Trees partnership. And that’s an effort to plant 10 million trees with the help of many, many partners to plant 10 million trees across the state of Pennsylvania by 2025, and that is directly in response to the Chesapeake Bay clean up goals set forth by the Environmental Protection Agency. So, we’re working with partners around the state on education, and our Environmental Restoration team is working with partners around the state on planting trees and making sure that we have those in place to protect our water resources. If folks are interested in learning more about that, you can find that on our website as well or tenmilliontrees.org.
HOST: As I said earlier, there is a Chesapeake Bay Foundation right here in Harrisburg, so it’s not like they have to connect Maryland. Do you or anybody locally go into schools to talk with science classes?
EMILY: We don’t do a lot of in-school visits, and that’s because our primary motto in the education department “learn outside.” So, we believe in learning about natural resources actually outside where they exist. With that being said, we do offer mentors in the agricultural conservation program, which is designed specifically for students in agricultural science or FFA. So, we will do in-class visits to meet with those students, and then that program actually pairs them with our field restoration staff. So, folks that are working with farmers to plant trees and so we go out for a day in the field jobs shadowing experience following our in-class visit to the school. For the most part, we are not in schools, but we do meet with teachers, school administrations regularly so if you’re an administrator and you’re interested in learning more about our programs, please reach out, and we would be happy to come and meet with you and discuss that, as well.
HOST: Great, great – ok, anything else?
EMILY: Not that I can think of.
HOST: Ok. I want to thank you for chatting, and I’m looking forward to hopefully talking to you again and after this adventure and seeing what all the students got to see and do and everything and how it all went.
EMILY: Yeah, absolutely.
HOST: If you have any questions for Emily or you want to find out more about her program, you can reach her at ethorpe@cbf.org.
Well, that is it for this week’s podcast. Thanks for listening, and be sure to tune in next week. And, if you want to learn more about The Wandering Pen check out www.thewanderingpen.net there, you will also be able to purchase my book, Silver Spring Township, which is part of Arcadia’s Images of America series.
Till next time – take care and– try to at least learn something new every day.
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Learn more about the Hellbender
Photo Credit: Mike PinderPhoto captured from Chesapeake Bay Foundation YouTube Channel
Disclaimer: The views expressed by guests are their own and do not reflect the views of the host or The Wandering Pen unless explicitly stated during the interview.
**Permission statement for the use of music: Pastorale by PeriTune | http://peritune.comMusic promoted by https://www.free-stock-music.comCreative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported Licensehttps://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/deed.en_US

Climbing Kilimanjaro to Save African Elephants

Interview Transcript with Dave, Kris, and Brian
Welcome to the Wandering Pen monthly Podcast, where you will find interviews on a variety of topics - from travel, wildlife conservation, the environment, writing & publishing, fine arts, and history, just to name a few. I am Christine Musser, your host.
In celebration of this past Veterans Day, I had the opportunity to interview Dave and Kris Gilbert and Brian Johnson, who recently climbed Mount Kilimanjaro in order to raise awareness for the endangered African elephant. Dave and Kris Gilbert are originally from Mechanicsburg, PA. They were high school sweethearts, and after graduation from the University of Delaware, Dave was commissioned in the United States Army and is now a retired Colonel.  They live in Las Vegas but are currently in Saudi Arabia, where Dave is working.
Kris is an outdoor enthusiast and a talented artist. She received a degree in Interior Design from the Art Institute of Pittsburgh.  Dave and Kris have a son and daughter, both of whom served in the United States Army.
Brian Johnson is originally from Lake Charles, LA, and is married to Kitty. He is a retired United States Army Lieutenant Colonel.
Photos of Mount Kilimanjaro Climb
Welcome Dave, Kris, and Brian to The Wandering Pen Podcast.  Thank you for agreeing to talk with me.  Let's start by finding out how the three of you decided to make this climb. What were the events that led up to this? Brian, would you like to start?
Brian: Well, several years ago, my wife and I started frequently going to Africa, and we became aware of the organization "Save the Elephant," and we decided originally that we wanted to do more with the organization after seeing first-hand what they do. About nine months ago, we decided we wanted to climb Mount Kilimanjaro to raise money for the organization.
Wandering Pen: Dave and Kris, how did you get involved with this?
Dave: Well, Brian originally asked me, and I was non-committal at the time, and Kris decided she was going to do it. I realized we were too young to do separate vacations (chuckle), so I decided to go with them both up the Mountain, and that was a mistake in judgment.
Wandering Pen: (chuckle)  Really? And why do you say that?
Dave: It was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life, including being on active duty. I've never challenged myself physically to the extent I did on the Mountain.
Wandering Pen: Oh, let's talk a little bit about that climb, um, let's first talk about the issues of the African elephant.  Um, what, what is the main issue with that? You know, is there poaching, or what is it about the African elephant?
Brian: Well, right now with the African elephant, I'm going to give you a number right now, between 2010 and 2012 approximately 100,000 elephants on the African continent died at the hands of poaching; primarily for their ivory tusks. Now some fall prey to bushmeat, but it's primarily driven by a market in Asia with insatiable demand for ivory. Conservationists estimate about 25, 000 to 35,000 elephants a year are being killed at the hands of poachers across the African continent.
Wandering Pen: Wow, that's pretty bad. I mean, I can understand that. So, let's now, so, you were doing this climb, preparing for this climb in order to bring awareness to the plight of the African elephant. Okay, so, what went into the planning of this climb? Dave, do you want to start with that since you, it was more challenging for you more?
Dave: yeah. Brian's wife Kitty did a lot of the "behind the scenes"; between her and Brian setting up the website and getting/doing it the proper way, you know, there's a number of ways it could be done. First time experience for any of us, it proved to be more of a challenge for any of us that we thought it would be. But as far as the planning for the Mountain we just ordered some books and read some books about the elephant, read some books about Kilimanjaro, watched a DVD showing an overview of the whole hike. And probably in May, we started walking and getting ready for the walk up the Mountain.
Wandering Pen: Okay, now you said about Brian's wife Kitty she did some of the "behind the scenes" with that – Brian, what went into that that Kitty had to do? What was the time frame of the setup, what was the time frame actually of the start of all this?
Brian: Like Dave said, it was surely the fundraising and getting donors. We got a lot of help from people at "Save the Elephants." What she primarily did was setup getting the word out on social media, and we really targeted our hometown, eventually, before Dave and Kris got involved, we really targeted our hometown alone. We wrote letters; I wrote a couple of articles for the local newspaper and then primarily through Twitter, through FaceBook and other means of social media, and she primarily did that.
Wandering Pen: So, you primarily reached out to Lake Charles, LA, when you say your hometown, right?
Brian: Yes, mam, eventually. I know at least on our part. I know Dave and Kris reached out to their friends, and we reached out to our community-based in Lake Charles, LA.
Wandering Pen: How long, Dave or Kris, either one of you – how much, how far was into this before you decided you wanted to get involved too and Kris, how long did it, you know the persuasion of getting Dave to do this – what's the time (laughter) frame there? You know, I mean – you know.
Kris: Brian started the idea a couple months before he was talking about doing it in July and then when that got canceled, he said he was staying in Kilimanjaro one week at the elephant camp, the camp to "Save the Elephants" and then we were going to go do the safari on the second week. So, since they were back to back I was thinking here one night and got to thinking that just sounds like so much fun, we're going to be down there, we're going to fly in, why don't we just stay down there and go from one place to another; take the bush plane over; it sounds so easy, so much fun. And, so, I came back and talked to Dave, I shared a few things, and I said, "What do you think about doing that?" He said, "Well, I really want to do the safari." So, then I thought, well, if we're both going to be down there at the same time, why don't we just do both? So, I went up and talked to Brian about doing it and then the next day he  . . .
Dave: By herself, without me. (chuckle) I wasn't going on anything but the safari at the beginning of this.
Kris: Right. I figured Dave didn't want to do this, and whoever is going, is going – and we would meet up with Kitty and Dave the following week for the safari. So, I went up there, two doors up, knocked on the door and said, "Hey, Brian, what do you think?" and he goes, "Yeah! If you want to do it." So, the next day the company sent Dave an email, and then Dave called Kris on the phone on that day and said, "When are we taking separate vacations? I'm going with you."Wandering Pen: (laughter)  That's really cool; considering you know you guys have been together . . .
Kris: A happy ending. I'm really glad we did it together.
Dave: I was torn. I was torn.
Wandering Pen: Yeah, well, you guys have been together for a long time, and that's really great. It's a little late, like you said, Dave, It's a little late in life to be starting separate vacations. And, you know.
Dave: That's right.
Wandering Pen: So, as far as planning the climb – you reviewed the videos and read – um – brochures, magazines, whatever, in preparation for that, right? But, you are there in Saudi Arabia, which I would think it's a little challenging too – um – to prepare for a climb on a mountain like Kilimanjaro, so, um – you want to - a – share a little bit on how you actually prepared for this climb, you know, on the desert of Saudi Arabia, now, I'm assuming that it's all desert and so on, so . . .
Dave: Yeah, there's – a- not a lot of places where we can go over here close by to workout to do this. There's really no change in elevation; we are just slightly above sea level; on an escarpment, so, there's really no change in elevation.  The only thing that was probably a hindrance is the high temperatures with walking three to five miles every night when we got off work, well, not every night, but most nights. That was completely different when we got down to Kilimanjaro where everything was pretty much everything was uphill, and the temperature was just the opposite; it was very cool, in fact, at some point, it gets frosty mornings, much like fall in Mechanicsburg, early morning, very chilly; it warms up during the day when the sun comes out, once again, clouds are forming on the Mountain, it gets very cold, damp and it's – a- frosty in the morning. It was a big difference temperature-wise for, and then the terrain was so much different then what we have here in the local environment.
Wandering Pen: So, how long did it take you, you know, to physically prepare for, um, that? You know, what was the time frame?
Dave: I can tell you that after doing it, I wasn't prepared.
(Laughter)
Wandering Pen: Now, I know Kris has done a lot of hiking, I'm not quite sure how Brian is physically, but just knowing Kris does a lot of outdoor things, like I said, she's quite the enthusiast when it comes to hiking and climbing outdoors. Kris, what would you say, you know, what would you share about it?
Kris: Um, Well, I did an awful lot of cross-training, so it was, I started out like a lot of weight lifting, upper body, did biking for lower body, the best you can do on a compound stationary bike and that type of thing. I did some yoga because I figured we would be doing some high angles and some depths, and that proved to be a benefit. I felt pretty limber going through some of the yoga movements where you bend over twist; that type of thing, so anything that was available we could get our hands-on, up at the gym or we would do basic walking just being on your feet, learning how to stay up and go for hours at a time, it's challenging; so, a lot of the walking we did was beneficial to that.
Wandering Pen: And, how 'bout you, Brian? What was your training like?
Brian: The same. I mean, I got some experience like Dave; I'm retired from the army. I spent some time on my feet, rucksack marching. I did some hiking and trekking while in Europe when I lived there. It was primarily what Dave said. It was merely putting on a rucksack and walking for hours. Um, hindered by the fact we didn't get any time out for training, which is what we needed, we did okay, we made it, but it was really just a matter of walking, walking, walking with a rucksack on your back.
Wandering Pen: What was the weight of the sack on your back?
Dave: Compared to what we're used to from active duty, not that heavy, maybe 30 lbs. As far as the volume, clothing, or camera, we took along clothing to add if we got cold or clothing we shed because we were warming up as we were walking. It wasn't a very heavy backpack at all. It was just our own subsistence. We had porters to take care of all our real-life support stuff.
Wandering Pen: Well, um, what is the average age, the percentage that climbs Kilimanjaro?
Kris: Well, the Tanzania National Park Authority states the minimum age limit for trekking is ten years old, and the oldest woman to reach the summit was Bernice Bunn[i] at the age of 83.
Wandering Pen: Oh, Wow. That's pretty cool.
Dave: Makes us a bunch of spring chickens.
Wandering Pen: Yeah. (laughter) exactly, exactly. Yeah, that's pretty good. Well, now, let's talk about the climb. Um, so you set out on the climb. What was the date to set out to, um, to climb?
Dave: 16 of October.
Wandering Pen: Okay – and, um, can you each just share a little bit of the different things, um, you know, as you started that day what the weather was like, you know, maybe the time of day, and, so on, just share now, um, about the climb, how long it took you, what the terrain was like, and those kinds of things.
Brian: When we started out, we were picked up at our hotel in Arusha, Tanzania. We drove to Machame Gate. The weather was kind of overcast, warm. Um, we got to Machame Gate, which is in the Tanzania National Forest. We checked in with the rangers and registered with the rangers, letting them know who was on the Mountain, and once we got sorted out, we started our walk. And Kilimanjaro is pretty interesting. You go through several ecosystems to get to the top. You start in the pretty lush tropical rain forest type of environment, and it's all uphill from there. We walked that day about 4 to 5 hours before we got to our first camp for the night. That was not expected.
Wandering Pen: How many hours did you say? 4 to 5?
Dave: 4 to 5 hours, we hiked the first day.
Wandering Pen: Yeah, so, and then what did you do? How did you sleep? You know, what was your camp like that first night and as you went?
Dave: What's interesting, you know, of course, we were all excited to get going, and there's a parking lot where all the various groups that are going to climb that day and all the porters are gathered around, they were forming, and there's a requirement by the National Park that the porters are only allowed to carry a certain amount of weight on their backs, so they had to officially go through a weigh in with all the gear, we were finally declared, and they let us through there, a door to the gate and started up the trail. We're thinking, this was, we got there probably around 12 o'clock, about mid-day, we had a choice of hot chocolate, coffee or tea, and some tea biscuits, and a lot of the other climbers who were sitting around us were eating box lunches and sandwiches, you know, and we were kind of like wondering why they're not feeding us. And probably about 30 minutes up the trail off to the side of the trail, they had the picnic table that they had carried up the Mountain and set up for us with a lunch and everything on top of it. So, it was us, you know, sitting there smiling as all the box "lunchers" as we called them as they strolled by our camp or our lucky spot. We got the better meal.
Wandering Pen: Wow. That's kind of like, you know, on the reality show Survivor, you know, when you win a reward, and it sounds like you guys got it and, you know, the other ones didn't.
Dave: Yeah, it was fun. Like Brian was saying, the first day, it's not so hard, we're in the forested area just above the cultivated part of the country and where we stopped at night everyone camps in the same area all the different groups that are hiking. We camp at a campground.  And, they, our porters, started after us, that became routine, they passed us, they get everything set up when we get there. Due to the sheer numbers, every group has to take a chemical port-a-potty, and so, we had all our life support there at the campground when we get there at the first ranger station along the way.
Wandering Pen: Now, um, the porters, you said the porters were limited to what they could carry. How many porters did you have, and what did, you know, what they carried and what you carried?
Dave: It ended up being there was 18 porters to carry all of our gear, and gear for themselves, they had to carry their own gear, plus some other stuff. We had a camp manager, a cook and an assistant cook, a guide and an assistant guide, so, that's an additional five – there's 23 individuals supporting three individuals who were climbing the Mountain.
Wandering Pen: Okay. So, now, whenever, so, you're on the next day, okay, and how many days did it take you to do the climb?
Dave: Too many. (laughter) There is actually different ways you can do it. There are companies that will take you up there, and you can hike it, you know, in four days or five days. We decided on a seven-day route, there's an eight-day route, ah, I believe there is even a ten-day route that you can take, but, we went with the seven-day route so to give ourselves more time to adjust to the altitude since we were coming from near sea level we needed that extra time. When we were living in the foothills of the Alps or the Rocky Mountains or in the Appalachian Mountains there in Pennsylvania, we could have cut it back to five days because we were used to the altitude. So, we gave ourselves the initial days to get adjusted to the altitude.
Wandering Pen: uh-huh, and what is the altitude there at Kilimanjaro, you know, as you went, what is the altitude?
Dave: At the top of the Mountain, it is 19,341 feet.
Wandering Pen: Okay, Okay. So, as you climbed up the Mountain, now was it a direct steep climb or was it kind of angle off, or how was it, you know, what was the, um, was it rocky, you know, what was the terrain, and of course, I know how the hiking is like, you know, um, Pole Steeple, here in Pennsylvania, or different places here, you know what that terrain is like rocky, or you know, with the woods, the forest, or whatever, but what's it like there, what was it like there? Was it rocky? Was it steep?
Kris: On Kilimanjaro, there are five different ecosystems, so you get to start from the very bottom with the greenest belts, and then you get to come up to some of the most beautiful flowers. Some of these flowers found in Kilimanjaro rain forest cannot be found anywhere else in the world. And then from there, you start to come up into a "boulderish" type of looking - bigger rocks, lesser trees, things begin to drag out.  Um, I would say, third day, by that time you are in the lava fields, don't you think?  And they're huge.  I mean, the rocks that you are climbing over, you're trying to pick your way up, you're looking over the top, you hit the ridge, you think you at the top, and then you get hit again, you on the ridge and it winds down, you continue from what seems like a really long time because your pace is so slow, it's like if you took an actual step that's a full step, what we were doing was half a step and the reason why we did that is because you begin to acclimate as you're climbing. And you have to do it so slow for your body to adjust. You have to hold your stuff back, and what they say is "Pole Pole," which means "slow, slow." He would remind us, our guide in front of us, would remind you of that – just walk slow, pole pole.
Wandering Pen: Wow. So, um, so, whenever you were climbing, then what was the different wildlife? Did you see any wildlife? What kind of birds? What did you see along the way as far as wildlife?
Dave: You see, birds. You see, a mammal that resembles a chipmunk or a striped mouse. You don't see a lot of big mammals on this Mountain. They moved off because of all the routes being used by humans. You don't see animals in general, but you'll see birds. One of the popular birds you see at every campground is the white-necked raven, which sounds/described just the way it looks. It's a white neck on a big black raven. Uh, and they feed on anything that is left behind by the campers. You're so focused on climbing and watching the trail in front of you because of all the obstacles; till you stop, and you drink water or catch your breath, you really don't soak in what is going on around you. You're just totally focused on the path where you're walking.
Wandering Pen: Now, as you were climbing up there, did you have any – were you able to use, um, like a cell phone once you got into camp or anything. Where you were able to talk to anyone outside of camp or you know, like Brian, your wife Kitty didn't go on the climb, were you able to correspond with her at all?
Brian: Like technology precedes everything else in life, there was mobile coverage. I would talk to her to keep her updated because she updating the FaceBook Page to let everybody know, so, yeah, she and I spoke every day.
Wandering Pen: What about an emergency – what if one of you would have twisted your ankle or what if there would have been an emergency – how would that have been handled?
Brian: We would have just left them up there. (laughter) They're on their own. No, the porters, the guides are trained in first aid. I don't know if they are certified, but they're trained. There's a robust mountain rescue service, it's probably pretty routine to them. They know how to get people off the Mountain.
Wandering Pen: Okay. Well, um, now when you made it to the summit, tell me or share about, you know, as you were getting close to the summit, could you tell? Was there like an opening you could see that you were getting close to the summit? If each one of you could share your thoughts or your impressions of whenever you got up there, what you saw, and, um, of course, we're going to share some of your photos from, you know your whole experience. So, just share a little bit or as much detail as you want about you reaching the summit.
David: On summit day, which was thirteen hours up, which, we started out at 4 o'clock in the morning and um, probably two steps out of the camp, first time I quit, in my mind, I'm not going to make it and, ah, every time you learned throughout this whole process, you've climbed, and you think you've reached the top of something, whether it was a ridgeline or another part of the hike where the high point is, it would level off, it's a bunch of "tomfoolery" because you never actually reached the top until you get to the top. And you're always let down thinking that "okay if I can just get to that next high spot and you get to the next high spot, and you find out there is another high spot beyond that. And, so, quite honestly when we got to the place called Stella's Point", ah, which is, I believe the second highest point at the, on the rim of the crater, um, I barely realized I got there, except for the fact that I looked up and I saw the signs there, because I just kept my head down, thinking there's no way I can stop if Kris is still moving. If Kris had stopped, I would have been a gentleman and stopped and taken care of her. But as long as she was moving forward, I couldn't stop.
Wandering Pen: She kept you going.
Dave: You get to Stella's Point, and it's kind of like, okay, you take a 10 – 15-minute break, and like our climb from this point forward to the top of the Mountain and at this point, you're like "I'm going go, I'm going to make it, you might have to carry me off the Mountain, but I'm going to make it to the top of the Mountain." I feel we are that close.
Wandering Pen:  Brian or Kris, you want to share your experience.
Kris: What I thought was awesome was, we actually left camp at 4 in the morning, we had headlamps, and we were in total darkness, so just watching the amount of stars that were popping out, that met the horizon, we continued, kind of stumbling, seeing the light come out in reddish-gold tones, night giving way to day, um, then when daybreak comes you realize you are still at the bottom. I could not believe that for as long as we hiked how much further we had to go. We could see the snowfields. They kept telling us "Pole Pole, keep hiking, take a break, take pictures, catch a breath" - and I think the first shed of light, like at the very top at Stella's Point, first major big break and we got up there and I thought, I still feel really good. I didn't know what to expect, my stomach had been acting up, I had a headache or two, all that kind of trepidation fell away, I took two Excedrins; decided to keep climbing and, I mean, we're at the top, and we still have another hour, it's like just over there and eerie. It's thousands of years old. Looking across this landscape, it looks just like a moonscape. It's just awesome. The clouds, like some of the pictures we're going to send you that have the cloud cover, we're above the clouds, and it's like a rim, and it goes the whole way around you, it's just awesome. It made it all worth it.
Wandering Pen: Wow. Um, Brian, what about you? What are some of the, you know, as you were climbing, some of the highlights and your feelings as you were getting closer to the summit?
Brian: You know, like Dave and Kris said, it was a miserable, miserable wet climb to the top, but when you got to Stella's Point, it was psychological then. You know what? We knew this was going to happen. It was an hour to Uhuru Peak, which was the target of our climb, which is the highest point, but at Stella's Point, you know you had it. Ah, when we eventually got to the summit, I must admit that I had a large amount of pressure on me. I started this project, and I absolutely, when you ask people for money for a cause, you better perform. You better execute. If we wouldn't have made it to the summit, where would we be? I could have fell down and broke my leg, but I made the summit. I could break it going down, but I could say I've been to the top. I think Dave and Kris would say the same thing. But, I think I had a little, little bit more pressure since I started the project.
Wandering Pen: And knowing Dave and Kris, if you would have stopped or whatever, they wouldn't have let you live it down, especially if they went on and made it to the top.
Brian: Absolutely not. And, ah, you know friendships, when you equally travel with friends, friendships can be ruined, especially something like this, but, ah, that not with Dave and Kris.
Dave: He'd do it alone. (laughter) He'd go back tomorrow.
Brian: No, I wouldn't go back tomorrow. (laughter)
Wandering Pen:  When the three of you got to the summit, okay, what was your first, um, thought, you know, what time of day was it, what was the weather, what did you see, you know, was it clear, how far could you see, can you give some detail of that, each of you, you know, your own experience?
Kris: There were pockets of clear blue sky, and you were walking around the crater from Stella's Point up to Uhuru, so you got chances to view the vastness of what stretched out to what seemed like forever. The glaciers minimalized it because they looked so small and in the background, and the crater is so big. It is iced over, you could barely breathe. Every step took an effort just to get there. So, that's kind of setting it up to what it looked like with the cloud cover. And then when we really got there, I just couldn't believe we made it, we were just standing there, like, finally, we're really here. We found an old sign that someone discarded or something. It talked about the Mountain and so on. We drug that over and held that up, and Brian had a "Save the Elephant" t-shirt, so we, you know, that was the high point; I thanked Dave for going along with all this. I had it in the back of my mind from the very beginning that I wanted to do it with him.
Dave: I think that was the first time I forgave her then. (chuckles) It was the interesting thing as we headed to the top there; once we got there, we had some things that we needed to do, get pictures, and we wanted to capture that on film, as well, when we got there. It's a very hostile looking environment. When you get to the top and look down into the craters, it's not something you see every day.  It's so desolate, and we live in the desert, but it's like living in, it's like being in the desert up there. There's no vegetation to look at, there's still cinders from the last day the volcano spit the lava. You see the black ashes, and when you start sliding back down the hill, you are sliding in the ashes and the cinders of the volcano. It hasn't been disturbed in so many years.[ii] The beauty is the glaciers. I know we made it to the top, but we didn't begin to smile about making it to the top, I don't think, until the next day. We were so physically exhausted that the 57 muscles it takes to smile weren't working.
Wandering Pen: Would you like to share anything else about the top, and then I would like to move on, um, to your trip coming down the Mountain. You know, we talked about you going up the Mountain, so I like to talk about coming down the Mountain and a little bit more as to what you did then and the events that followed, um, that followed your climb.
Kris: One thing, one fact about Kilimanjaro, over 20,000 people attempts to climb a year, of those 20,000 two-thirds make it, a thousand are evacuated, and ten die.
Wandering Pen: Oh.
Kris: So, it's a mixed bag. It's nothing to take lightly.
Wandering Pen: Yeah.
Kris: That's for sure.
Wandering Pen: Yeah, yeah.
Dave: When we started that day at 4 o'clock in the morning, by the time we got back down, off of the peak, back to base camp where we started that walk, it was almost 4 o'clock in the afternoon. So, about twelve hours, we had water to drink and some candy bars. We really weren't hungry. Just between the altitude and the effect on us physiologically and just being exhausted, we did not want to go any further. Once we got to base camp, we were going to talk to our guides and say, "We'll stay here and hike the whole way off the Mountain in one day, but we can't go any further because we are just so physically spent." And, so we had that discussion with the guide when we got down there as they were preparing lunch for us at 4 o'clock in the afternoon. We were told that park regulations prevented us from staying at the base camp, so we had to hike another two hours after lunch to Millennium Camp, which was the next closest camp to base camp. They wanted us to get to another camp, I can't remember the name of that camp, and they really wanted us to shorten our day to get off the Mountain. So, we ended up coming in from base camp to Millennium with our headlights and flashlights because it was that dark at that time. And they were like, "okay, we have dinner ready for ya." I was like, "I don't have the energy to pick up the spoon to feed myself, I'm going up to bed, and I'll eat in the morning. I just want to get out of these wet clothes that I've been hiking in all day and go to sleep." And that's what I did. The next morning, I woke up with a huge appetite and hiked down the Mountain. And by that point, we were back at the forested area, and it was still a good climb. We left at 7 o'clock in the morning, and I think by 12:30 that day we were off the Mountain completely. By then, it started to set in, okay, you've accomplished it to the top, and you made it back safely to the bottom. We did what we wanted to do when we went there. We were starting to relax and starting to think we could almost smell clean clothes, although we couldn't really smell anything except our own dirt. We know at the hotel we had clean clothing to change into after seven days of wearing pretty much the same stuff, just swapping it around.
Wandering Pen: Wow.  Whenever you got down then, I remember seeing some photos and some videos of some events that took place, you know, once you guys came back down off the Mountain. Do you want to share some about that?
Dave: What did we do after we got off the Mountain?
Brian: I was not in a good mood. Me personally, my knees were killing me from the walk down. But, anyway, when we got off the Mountain, there were these grandiose plans that once we got back to the hotel . . .
Dave: We go to the bar.
Brian: I got in the shower, and I sat in the shower for 55 minutes. I went downstairs then and got a sandwich to go and went to bed. That's how much of a celebration there was that night.
Dave: The climb down is much harder than you would expect, you're going down, and gravity is pulling you down; there's excitement of wanting to get off the Mountain. There's lose gravel that tends to play with more going down than going up, so there's a tendency to lose your balance and find yourself on your backside more so than going up the Mountain. It's a little harder to go down the Mountain than it is to go up the Mountain.
Brian: It was tougher on me going down than going up. That's my take on it.
Kris: I agree. It was eleven hours just to base camp, and then we had to hike to the next camp lower, so that was another 4 to 5 hours till we got there, and then we could sleep.
Dave: That's how much of an impact it was on Kris. We kept joking with our guides, Edward and Good Luck, assisting guide – these guides adopt English names even though it's not what their native names are, ah, so it's easier for their English clientele to say their names. We would get up in the morning, and we would ask, "How far are we walking today?" and he'd say, "It's going to be like a three and a half hour hike." So, actually the first couple days we were out there for seven hours. (laughter) He says, "We're going to be climbing up, and he says there's going to be some flat areas." But we knew there wasn't going to be any flat areas. We would joke with them.
Wandering Pen: The days that followed you spent some time there before you went back to Saudi Arabia, um, what were some of the things, just by some of the videos that you shared on FaceBook as well as some of the photos. You got some awesome photos of the wildlife there, and you were actually at an elephant sanctuary or habitat there?
Dave: Yeah, we went to an elephant watch camp.
Wandering Pen: Ah, okay.
Brian: We began our visit in Nairobi at the David Sheldrick elephant orphanage and then flew up to Naivasha, where we spent two days just relaxing after the climb. Then off to Samburu and the Elephant Watch Camp for the safari.
Wandering Pen: So, Dave got to do a safari? Is that what you said, Dave got to do a safari?
Dave: We spent one day in Arusha, basically, to get ready to fly down to Nairobi, checked into a hotel there for like two days, and met up with Kitty at that point. She flew in from Saudi Arabia. Then we took off on a plane, no, we drove up to the Great Rift Valley up to Lake Naivasha and to where Iain and Oria Douglas-Hamilton owns a retreat.  Iain is the founder of Elephant Watch Camp and Save the Elephants foundation.
Kris: Brian didn't tell that part. (laughter)
Brian:  No, Dave is right. I just got things mixed up a little bit. The Olerai House[iii] is owned by Dr. Iain and Oria Douglas-Hamilton. Dr. Hamilton is one of the world's leading experts on the African elephant. And, ah, we spent two days just relaxing there.
Dave: We had a beautiful time. Her husband wasn't available. He was stateside doing a five-week, um, tour around to see major contributors to generate additional contributions from other people, Iain and his son-in-law, Frank, were doing that. The ladies went back and opened the camp and had the camp running. We stayed there for two days. And then we had chartered a plane that flew right in front of the cottage we were living in, which is not uncommon in Africa. If you don't fly, then you drive, and most people who have to cover the landscape have their pilot's license, or they are connected to someone who does. That's the only way to make time in Africa is to fly somewhere. So, they loaded up the plane with vegetables out of the garden, and we headed up to Elephant Watch Camp, which is located off of a river[iv] that I won't even try to pronounce the name of. We met their daughter, and we stay there that day, and a couple days on, then we actually ran into Frank, and that was the day we actually did the safari being in the sense of being in the back of a truck.
During breakfast, the zebras came to you, and the giraffes walked over your feet, and it was just unbelievable. You felt like you were in a scene with Dr. Doolittle with all the animals.
Wandering Pen: Yeah, now, whenever you're saying that I mean is this, um, maybe I didn't hear you right, but um, was this a habitat or was this just wild animals that you were out somewhere, you're at this camp, this area, they live . . .
Dave: This is not a fenced-in area. This is all open habitat; the animals don't know where the boundaries are as far as this is a conservatory land that is owned by this trust fund that just means that they watch over that area. For the other one, animals are smart, Brian, you can talk more about that, but they're smart enough to know the out of bounds area, where people can't get to them and where the people can get to them, and they stay in the areas where they can't be gotten to.
Wandering Pen: Yeah, yeah. Hmm . . .  I saw some of that; you know the wildlife, what was that a jaguar or a leopard? How close were you to that when you took that picture? Was he out somewhere?
Brian: Specifically, you're referring to the one the leopard. The leopard lives in the natural reserve. Like Dave said, it's not fenced. It's a real-life African bush. There are no boundaries; well, there are boundaries, there are no fences. These animals are all free-ranging. I mean, this is the real deal. It's the African bush. It's a national park. I don't you or your readers to get the wrong impression; it's not tame Africa, it's wild, this is the real bush. This is the real deal. They're wild animals.
Wandering Pen: See, that's what I was wondering about that. Were you fearful at all about, um, them approaching you or hurting you know, any fear?
Dave: There's like a mutual respect where you still got to be cautious, I mean you can't just go in there and blow it off. There's things that go on; you listen to Frank talking; you have these opportunities like we saw this animal that's an orphan or going to be orphaned; we could go in and rescue it, but we do that and how many more till we stop? Do we rescue all of them? Do we upset the balance? There's a very delicate balance where they intervene and where they don't intervene, um, they want the animals to survive on their own. One of the ways that can happen is we got to get the guys out of there that want the trophy hunting, the guys that are doing the poaching for the ivory, the ones that are trapping the cats for their pelts. Those are the big hindrances of what is going on down there. It's not that civilization is starting to encroach on the habitat; it's the poachers and the hunters. They think they need the ivory more than the elephant needs the ivory.  Money speaks. They showed us where they were proactive in their program there on how they cut back on the number of poaching that has taken place. Ah, so it's a good thing. It's not enough, but it's a good thing.
Brian: You need to be careful in the bush and follow the instructions of your guides. On a previous trip to Kenya, my wife and I witnessed a mock charged by a large bull elephant in musth. They can be very unpredictable and aggressive during musth. You just back off and give them space. What concerns me the most in the bush are the elephants, buffalo, and hippos out of the water.  
Wandering Pen: I guess the stomping can get you, and they can do quite a bit of damage. But, um, which then brings us back to um, the fundraising site. Brian, if you want to share a little bit about that and I understand you are still taking donations. What are the donations going toward? If someone wants to donate, what would their money be used for?
Brian: Sure, um, one thing about "Save the Elephants" its headquarters is in Kenya. For more information on what the donations go towards, see http://savetheelephants.org/ . Donations can be used for many things. As a non-profit, they run a very tight operation. It's out in the bush. They don't have a lot of overhead. Donations could be used from anything to paying rangers salary, to buy elephant collars, supporting aircraft, surveillance flights to watch elephants, to training rangers all over Africa, public service announcements in China and in the United States; among other things. That's an overview of what your donation is used for to help them out.
Wandering Pen: And for more information on what the donations go towards, they can get it off the website that you shared, right?
Brian: Yes, mam. They can make a pledge, that's our donation fundraising site. And on Facebook, it's the donation page - https://www.facebook.com/climbingAfricashighestpeak/
Wandering Pen: And you want to share the "Save the Elephant" website one more time, please.
Brian: www.savetheelephants.org
Wandering Pen: Alrighty. Is there anything else any of you would like to share?
Dave: It was a good experience. The safari was one of the things on my "bucket list"; the climb was not on my "bucket list," but I'm so glad I did it. I saw it to its completion from raising money to going to where "Save the Elephants" Reserve and other organizations such as the David Sheldrick Wildlife Trust adopting orphans and seeing where that kind of money goes and what it does. It made it worthwhile. Not only the second week with what we did but what we did the first week was worth it.
Wandering Pen: I'm really glad that you guys took the time to, um; share your experience, you know, with The Wandering Pen and all the listeners. So, thank you, Dave, Kris and Brian for taking the time to share your experience with The Wandering Pen Podcast and also, Dave and Brian, thank you for your service you know in order to keep the United States safe, you know, it's really appreciated. Happy Veterans Day.
Dave, Kris, and Brian: Thank you.
If you have any questions for Dave, Kris, or Brian about their climb to Mount Kilimanjaro or Save the Elephants organization, be sure to comment below, and they will respond back to you.
Well, that's it for this month's podcast. Thanks for listening, and be sure to tune in next month when I talk photography with Lorena Nez from Arizona. And, if you want to learn more about The Wandering Pen check out www.thewanderingpen.net there, you will also find my book Silver Spring Township, which is part of Arcadia's Images of America series.
Till next time – take care and as always – remember to seize the moment.
Mount Kilimanjaro & Save the Elephants Camp Photos
 
[i] Richard Byerley was 'officially' the oldest person to reach the summit of Kilimanjaro. Byerley reached the summit in October 2010 at the ripe old age of 84 years and 71 days. However, his record was incredibly surpassed by Martin Kafer (85) and his wife Esther (84) in October 2012. The Canadian-Swiss couple now holds the record as the oldest man and the oldest woman to climb Kilimanjaro. Esther's achievement surpassed the previous oldest woman to reach the summit, Bernice Bunn, who climbed to the Roof of Africa at age 83. http://everlastingtz.com/kilimanjaro-facts.html
[ii] The most recent activity was about 200 years ago; the last major eruption was 360,000 years ago. - #9
http://www.worldwildlife.org/blogs/good-nature-travel/posts/ten-interesting-facts-about-mt-kilimanjaro
[iii] The Olerai House http://elephantwatchportfolio.com/oleraihouse/
[iv] Ewaso Nyiro River
Photos of the Climb to the top of Mount Kilimanjaro
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Disclaimer: The views expressed by guests are their own and do not reflect the views of the host or The Wandering Pen unless explicitly stated during the interview.
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